1
00:00:10,009 --> 00:00:00,980
thank you

2
00:00:13,070 --> 00:00:10,019
[Music]

3
00:00:15,950 --> 00:00:13,080
they were complex narratives of being

4
00:00:19,990 --> 00:00:15,960
taken by alien beings into UFOs on beams

5
00:00:30,589 --> 00:00:22,790
the Air Force is trying to cover up with

6
00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:33,049
from my own point of view I'm going to

7
00:00:37,310 --> 00:00:35,579
be very disappointed if UFOs turn out to

8
00:00:38,630 --> 00:00:37,320
be nothing more than visitors from

9
00:00:41,810 --> 00:00:38,640
another planet because I think there

10
00:00:45,330 --> 00:00:41,820
could be something much more interesting

11
00:01:08,750 --> 00:01:05,469
[Music]

12
00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:08,760
welcome back to the channel I'm your

13
00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:11,700
host Vinnie Adams now a lot of you are

14
00:01:16,969 --> 00:01:13,920
aware that I announced my new co-host

15
00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:16,979
this week Katie Howland unfortunately

16
00:01:21,890 --> 00:01:19,680
Katie is unwell today so she's not able

17
00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:21,900
to join us here for this interview so I

18
00:01:26,450 --> 00:01:24,360
hope you'll join me in sending uh our

19
00:01:28,490 --> 00:01:26,460
best wishes to her for a speedy recovery

20
00:01:30,109 --> 00:01:28,500
so Katie if you're watching or if you're

21
00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:30,119
listening at a later date please get

22
00:01:35,149 --> 00:01:32,280
better soon I can't wait to get started

23
00:01:36,649 --> 00:01:35,159
doing these interviews with you

24
00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:36,659
um thank you all for being here I see a

25
00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:37,740
lot of you in the live chat already

26
00:01:40,789 --> 00:01:39,659
really good if any of you have any

27
00:01:43,789 --> 00:01:40,799
questions throughout this interview

28
00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:43,799
please pop them in capital letters

29
00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:46,079
um that way I get to notice it we do

30
00:01:49,969 --> 00:01:47,880
accept super chats as well things like

31
00:01:51,530 --> 00:01:49,979
that and I mentioned in one of my

32
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:51,540
previous interviews that we now have a

33
00:01:56,810 --> 00:01:54,240
sponsor it is a novel 29 degrees north

34
00:02:00,170 --> 00:01:56,820
by Dan Quinn I highly recommend it if

35
00:02:01,789 --> 00:02:00,180
you like a good kind of adventure story

36
00:02:03,950 --> 00:02:01,799
um the links are in the description for

37
00:02:06,469 --> 00:02:03,960
that it's about three dollars on Kindle

38
00:02:08,150 --> 00:02:06,479
about seven dollars for pay paperback so

39
00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:08,160
that helps support the channel and the

40
00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:10,679
work that we do here so yeah thanks guys

41
00:02:15,110 --> 00:02:12,840
as always keep that chat cool calm and

42
00:02:17,089 --> 00:02:15,120
collected as you always do

43
00:02:17,990 --> 00:02:17,099
and yeah let's get straight into it I'm

44
00:02:19,369 --> 00:02:18,000
really looking forward to this

45
00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:19,379
conversation

46
00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:22,080
um so let me welcome my guest veteran UK

47
00:02:26,930 --> 00:02:24,780
UFO researcher author lecturer

48
00:02:29,630 --> 00:02:26,940
broadcaster and publisher

49
00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:29,640
Mr Philip mantle Philip how are you yeah

50
00:02:33,350 --> 00:02:31,200
good evening million nice to speak to

51
00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:33,360
you uh it's a pleasure to have you on

52
00:02:37,309 --> 00:02:35,280
I've been following your work for quite

53
00:02:38,570 --> 00:02:37,319
some time and uh it's it's great to

54
00:02:41,150 --> 00:02:38,580
finally have the opportunity to talk

55
00:02:43,790 --> 00:02:41,160
with you but my pleasure I can assure

56
00:02:45,470 --> 00:02:43,800
you thank you uh Philip if you don't

57
00:02:47,330 --> 00:02:45,480
mind I'd love to just basically touch

58
00:02:49,309 --> 00:02:47,340
upon what really sort of got you started

59
00:02:51,229 --> 00:02:49,319
in the UFO subject uh you know those

60
00:02:53,089 --> 00:02:51,239
those years ago I'd really uh be uh

61
00:02:55,729 --> 00:02:53,099
interesting to hear how it all began

62
00:02:57,949 --> 00:02:55,739
yeah I mean I you know go back as far as

63
00:02:59,750 --> 00:02:57,959
I can really I were always interested in

64
00:03:02,869 --> 00:02:59,760
all things

65
00:03:06,830 --> 00:03:02,879
shall we say paranormal you know even as

66
00:03:08,930 --> 00:03:06,840
a young kid as far as I can remember and

67
00:03:12,410 --> 00:03:08,940
um I had several interests it was the

68
00:03:14,630 --> 00:03:12,420
Paranormal I loved horror movies uh

69
00:03:17,930 --> 00:03:14,640
astronomy and the Space Race that you

70
00:03:20,089 --> 00:03:17,940
know that was about it really and

71
00:03:23,990 --> 00:03:20,099
um I would read whatever I could find

72
00:03:26,089 --> 00:03:24,000
about certain topics uh my mum got

73
00:03:28,430 --> 00:03:26,099
arrested was always you know very

74
00:03:32,089 --> 00:03:28,440
inquisitive I don't know if it starts

75
00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:32,099
with her my mum came from uh Northern

76
00:03:35,330 --> 00:03:32,940
Ireland

77
00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:35,340
you know when she was young they lived

78
00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:38,040
in a very rural part of the country this

79
00:03:44,330 --> 00:03:40,860
is pre pre-second World War and they had

80
00:03:48,410 --> 00:03:44,340
a little small holding and she told me

81
00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:48,420
that she met a fairy down by the Stream

82
00:03:53,570 --> 00:03:51,000
a little female fairy pretty clothes

83
00:03:54,649 --> 00:03:53,580
wings and she conversed with it she

84
00:03:56,809 --> 00:03:54,659
talked to it

85
00:03:58,430 --> 00:03:56,819
and this fairy said if you drink from

86
00:03:59,630 --> 00:03:58,440
this bottle you'll never have an

87
00:04:01,550 --> 00:03:59,640
accident

88
00:04:04,130 --> 00:04:01,560
so she drunk it

89
00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:04,140
and she never never had an accident but

90
00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:06,239
well unless you call my father an

91
00:04:12,170 --> 00:04:08,879
accident I don't wanna I don't know you

92
00:04:14,330 --> 00:04:12,180
know but um I don't I remember she told

93
00:04:15,949 --> 00:04:14,340
me the story down the decades I would

94
00:04:17,449 --> 00:04:15,959
ask you about it and I said you know mum

95
00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:17,459
was it was this real she said it was a

96
00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:19,979
real to me son and she told my children

97
00:04:26,090 --> 00:04:23,040
her grandchildren as well you know so it

98
00:04:27,890 --> 00:04:26,100
was certainly real to her so I was she

99
00:04:30,110 --> 00:04:27,900
was always open-minded about things she

100
00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:30,120
wasn't any great intellect was my mom or

101
00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:32,460
anything like that but I was fortunate

102
00:04:35,930 --> 00:04:34,680
because when I lived I was brought up on

103
00:04:38,330 --> 00:04:35,940
a counselor state

104
00:04:40,370 --> 00:04:38,340
and literally the other side of the road

105
00:04:42,530 --> 00:04:40,380
was my best friend's grandma

106
00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:42,540
and she used to go we lived just outside

107
00:04:46,909 --> 00:04:44,520
of Leeds in West Yorkshire

108
00:04:48,409 --> 00:04:46,919
she used to go to the local spiritualist

109
00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:48,419
church every now and again in a little

110
00:04:53,450 --> 00:04:50,340
town called Morley you know it was just

111
00:04:55,610 --> 00:04:53,460
10 minute bus ride away so on occasion I

112
00:04:57,650 --> 00:04:55,620
would go with her and I found it

113
00:04:59,210 --> 00:04:57,660
fascinating I didn't necessarily agree

114
00:05:00,770 --> 00:04:59,220
with what they were saying and what

115
00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:00,780
their stance was

116
00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:03,360
but nonetheless I found it interesting

117
00:05:08,570 --> 00:05:06,660
and of course when I was at High School

118
00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:08,580
some of the teachers after the school

119
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:09,840
holidays

120
00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:12,479
when we return would say what what did

121
00:05:16,189 --> 00:05:14,100
you do during the holiday that somebody

122
00:05:18,469 --> 00:05:16,199
said oh I went pony riding you know we

123
00:05:21,110 --> 00:05:18,479
went to Spain on holiday what about your

124
00:05:25,610 --> 00:05:21,120
model oh I went to the spiritualist

125
00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:25,620
church you know it wasn't a great way of

126
00:05:31,550 --> 00:05:29,280
getting a girlfriend I can assure you

127
00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:31,560
and then you know and upset at some

128
00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:33,720
point I don't know if it's when just

129
00:05:38,689 --> 00:05:35,580
before I left High School

130
00:05:40,189 --> 00:05:38,699
I read an astronomy book to this day I

131
00:05:41,570 --> 00:05:40,199
can't remember what it was called but he

132
00:05:46,010 --> 00:05:41,580
had one chapter

133
00:05:47,810 --> 00:05:46,020
on UFOs and it basically dismissed them

134
00:05:49,610 --> 00:05:47,820
which I found a bit curious because

135
00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:49,620
elsewhere in this book

136
00:05:54,110 --> 00:05:52,080
there were things about space and space

137
00:05:57,409 --> 00:05:54,120
travel that were purely science fiction

138
00:06:00,170 --> 00:05:57,419
but seemed to be nonetheless accepted

139
00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:00,180
and of course now we realize that most

140
00:06:03,890 --> 00:06:01,440
of what they were talking about was

141
00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:03,900
wrong anyway we've learned so much more

142
00:06:09,170 --> 00:06:06,840
so that kind of intrigued me and I read

143
00:06:10,550 --> 00:06:09,180
a few books on the subject and a few

144
00:06:14,590 --> 00:06:10,560
things then in

145
00:06:20,510 --> 00:06:14,600
I left High School in 1974.

146
00:06:23,090 --> 00:06:20,520
in the the winter of 1978 over into 1979

147
00:06:25,550 --> 00:06:23,100
a very famous winter in the UK it's

148
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,560
known as the winter of discontent

149
00:06:30,170 --> 00:06:27,600
when the country was collapsing and

150
00:06:32,330 --> 00:06:30,180
pretty much everybody was on strike well

151
00:06:34,969 --> 00:06:32,340
I wasn't because I went out to work in

152
00:06:35,809 --> 00:06:34,979
what was West Germany with a friend of

153
00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:35,819
mine

154
00:06:39,770 --> 00:06:38,639
and of course couldn't speak a word of

155
00:06:42,170 --> 00:06:39,780
the language

156
00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:42,180
so I wrote my mom I said can you send me

157
00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:45,120
some books to read anything you know so

158
00:06:50,809 --> 00:06:47,220
she sent me a parcel of books and they

159
00:06:52,969 --> 00:06:50,819
were all paperback books on UFOs where

160
00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:52,979
on Earth she got them V I have no idea

161
00:06:58,430 --> 00:06:54,780
so I'm reading these things on a night

162
00:07:00,830 --> 00:06:58,440
after work so by the time in 1979 I

163
00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:00,840
returned to the UK I had a bit more

164
00:07:05,570 --> 00:07:03,360
knowledge about the subject

165
00:07:09,590 --> 00:07:05,580
and like I said we live just outside of

166
00:07:11,990 --> 00:07:09,600
Leeds our leads then and as does now has

167
00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:12,000
an evening newspaper and it's called the

168
00:07:16,309 --> 00:07:14,940
Yorkshire Evening Post and my aunt who

169
00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:16,319
live around the corner from us she

170
00:07:19,490 --> 00:07:17,759
brought the newspaper around one night

171
00:07:21,469 --> 00:07:19,500
and she said have you seen this

172
00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:21,479
and there was an advertisement in it for

173
00:07:27,469 --> 00:07:24,120
the formation of the Yorkshire UFO

174
00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:27,479
Society coming up that Sunday in Leeds

175
00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:29,940
and it gave you the location and the

176
00:07:33,469 --> 00:07:32,160
time just a small out literally a

177
00:07:35,749 --> 00:07:33,479
smaller

178
00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:35,759
so as you're probably aware in those

179
00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:37,800
days on a Sunday the whole country used

180
00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:39,900
to pretty much close down anyway so I

181
00:07:43,070 --> 00:07:41,880
got I didn't drive I got the bus into

182
00:07:44,629 --> 00:07:43,080
Leeds

183
00:07:47,330 --> 00:07:44,639
I found this place it was called

184
00:07:48,409 --> 00:07:47,340
santinary House on North Street in Leeds

185
00:07:51,469 --> 00:07:48,419
it's still there

186
00:07:53,749 --> 00:07:51,479
uh I wanna I just you know heard some

187
00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:53,759
noise in one of the rooms and there was

188
00:07:59,029 --> 00:07:56,340
the Yorkshire UFO Society had been

189
00:08:02,390 --> 00:07:59,039
formed by two brothers Graham and Mark

190
00:08:04,370 --> 00:08:02,400
Birdsall they put on a presentation

191
00:08:07,249 --> 00:08:04,380
uh so it was obvious they'd been

192
00:08:09,529 --> 00:08:07,259
involved for a few years already for me

193
00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:09,539
it was great they had a table of books

194
00:08:14,689 --> 00:08:12,000
you know I could buy some more books and

195
00:08:17,749 --> 00:08:14,699
that was it Vinnie I was

196
00:08:20,390 --> 00:08:17,759
I felt as if I'd found my my niche in

197
00:08:22,850 --> 00:08:20,400
life I felt like I'd I'd come home I

198
00:08:24,890 --> 00:08:22,860
just felt comfortable there and I I

199
00:08:27,189 --> 00:08:24,900
joined I think I paid two pounds for the

200
00:08:30,589 --> 00:08:27,199
whole year that's that's my membership

201
00:08:33,110 --> 00:08:30,599
and that's literally how it all began

202
00:08:34,969 --> 00:08:33,120
amazing thank you yeah I certainly know

203
00:08:36,170 --> 00:08:34,979
that feeling of kind of finding your

204
00:08:38,389 --> 00:08:36,180
place where you're meant to be and

205
00:08:40,310 --> 00:08:38,399
finding your home as as I found the

206
00:08:43,070 --> 00:08:40,320
subject now that's really interesting

207
00:08:44,570 --> 00:08:43,080
thank you and I mean I could talk all

208
00:08:46,310 --> 00:08:44,580
day about everything that happened in

209
00:08:48,710 --> 00:08:46,320
the in the in between years but I really

210
00:08:51,470 --> 00:08:48,720
love to just jump to when this this

211
00:08:53,570 --> 00:08:51,480
alien autopsy thing really first you

212
00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:53,580
know came up on your radar where it

213
00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:55,800
started and how you got involved in and

214
00:08:59,509 --> 00:08:57,600
the hype that kind of came with it yeah

215
00:09:01,430 --> 00:08:59,519
yeah well you know as the years

216
00:09:03,889 --> 00:09:01,440
progressed that the Yorkshire UFO

217
00:09:06,590 --> 00:09:03,899
Society I'll get a lot of stuff

218
00:09:08,570 --> 00:09:06,600
we had another organization that we we

219
00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:08,580
formed here called The Independent UFO

220
00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:10,500
Network and then I went on to join

221
00:09:14,570 --> 00:09:12,959
euphora the British UFO research

222
00:09:16,009 --> 00:09:14,580
Association which was a National

223
00:09:19,430 --> 00:09:16,019
Organization

224
00:09:20,269 --> 00:09:19,440
and again I did a variety of rules for

225
00:09:24,530 --> 00:09:20,279
them

226
00:09:27,949 --> 00:09:24,540
and we jump forward in time now to 1993.

227
00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:27,959
and one of the roles that I I played was

228
00:09:32,750 --> 00:09:30,720
I was their press officer right so this

229
00:09:34,670 --> 00:09:32,760
is the these are the days before the

230
00:09:37,970 --> 00:09:34,680
internet and before email so anything

231
00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:37,980
from any media would eventually make its

232
00:09:42,410 --> 00:09:40,380
way across my desk and we had a letter

233
00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:42,420
one day from a company called the Merlin

234
00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:44,160
group in London

235
00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:46,320
a very straightforward letter saying

236
00:09:52,370 --> 00:09:48,360
could we assist them in the making of a

237
00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:52,380
UFO documentary nothing specific

238
00:09:56,269 --> 00:09:53,940
um I wrote back

239
00:09:58,970 --> 00:09:56,279
and sent them some information about you

240
00:10:01,490 --> 00:09:58,980
for it and what we couldn't couldn't do

241
00:10:03,230 --> 00:10:01,500
uh so we're going to cut well let us XJ

242
00:10:05,870 --> 00:10:03,240
and a couple of factors believe it or

243
00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:05,880
not they're a fax machine in those days

244
00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:08,880
so in the end I spoke with the with the

245
00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:11,760
the uh the CEO the managing manager of

246
00:10:15,530 --> 00:10:13,680
this place the owner was a chap called

247
00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:15,540
Ray santilly

248
00:10:20,690 --> 00:10:18,660
and initially we were talking about you

249
00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:20,700
know a very general sort of UFO

250
00:10:26,449 --> 00:10:22,980
documentary he was looking for

251
00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:26,459
film footage still photographs we didn't

252
00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:28,680
have that but I knew places that did and

253
00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:31,860
so on and then as our conversation

254
00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:33,420
developed

255
00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:35,760
completely out of the blue

256
00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:37,740
I know I mean no warning about this

257
00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:39,480
whatsoever santilly said well I've got

258
00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:40,680
film

259
00:10:45,410 --> 00:10:43,740
of Rosewell didn't call it Roswell and

260
00:10:47,389 --> 00:10:45,420
it Rose well

261
00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:47,399
and I said what do you mean

262
00:10:52,430 --> 00:10:49,860
he said well I've got film of the the

263
00:10:54,110 --> 00:10:52,440
UFO crash and the creatures being

264
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:54,120
examined

265
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:55,920
so naturally

266
00:11:00,949 --> 00:10:57,600
I just said show me

267
00:11:03,650 --> 00:11:00,959
yeah so I met Ray in London we used to

268
00:11:05,329 --> 00:11:03,660
have um meetings in London and like

269
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,339
evening lectures at the London Business

270
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:08,160
School which wasn't far from where race

271
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:10,079
until these offices were so I invited

272
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,600
him around one evening and after the

273
00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:14,640
lecture was over

274
00:11:17,569 --> 00:11:16,440
um he told me this story again and he

275
00:11:21,530 --> 00:11:17,579
said

276
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,540
I went out to um Cleveland Ohio this is

277
00:11:26,449 --> 00:11:23,519
my main business is music

278
00:11:29,090 --> 00:11:26,459
buy and sell things license it

279
00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:29,100
photographs all this cat you know back

280
00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:30,660
catalogs you know anything we were

281
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,300
actually looking for old film of the

282
00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:35,279
rock and roll Stars before they were

283
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,100
famous you know Elvis or whoever because

284
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:40,079
they did the college circuit in this

285
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,120
area at least there's one guy stepped

286
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:43,920
forward and oh boy and said I've got a

287
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:45,480
clip of Elvis

288
00:11:49,970 --> 00:11:48,000
uh the company I work for is no longer

289
00:11:51,650 --> 00:11:49,980
in existence so there's no copyright so

290
00:11:53,690 --> 00:11:51,660
he said right find cash transaction

291
00:11:56,269 --> 00:11:53,700
check your answer thank you very much

292
00:11:59,329 --> 00:11:56,279
and he said this this this old boy came

293
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:59,339
back to us before we flew on and said um

294
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:00,720
well actually

295
00:12:05,449 --> 00:12:03,360
before I was a freelance cameraman I was

296
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:05,459
in the military

297
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:08,940
and I filmed the UFO crash at Roswell

298
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:12,000
so santilly said he went to this guy's

299
00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:15,000
home where he got the film put on a

300
00:12:18,889 --> 00:12:16,920
projector and showed it on the wall and

301
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:18,899
he said basically how much do you want

302
00:12:23,449 --> 00:12:19,920
for it

303
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:23,459
are they sure cans you know no paperwork

304
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:25,860
not allowed to release his name

305
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:27,959
and I said that's a great story right

306
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:30,959
you know fantastic Story show me

307
00:12:37,310 --> 00:12:34,620
you know it's it's as simple as that you

308
00:12:39,530 --> 00:12:37,320
know yes I can no account so I went home

309
00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:39,540
this conversation went backward and

310
00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:40,920
forwards and in the end I just told him

311
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,839
to bug her off for me you know I said

312
00:12:46,250 --> 00:12:44,160
it's it's

313
00:12:49,610 --> 00:12:46,260
you know it's rubbish

314
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:49,620
uh I I did I didn't tell a few of my

315
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:51,720
colleagues Watts until he was claiming I

316
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:53,220
said keep it to yourself

317
00:12:56,569 --> 00:12:54,959
you know I spoke to some of my

318
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,579
colleagues at people forest and I move

319
00:13:01,850 --> 00:12:59,040
on and some other guys I knew within the

320
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,860
uh UFO Community basically asked for

321
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:03,120
anyone could trust them and they

322
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:05,279
wouldn't say anything yeah

323
00:13:09,769 --> 00:13:06,779
um but at least I would I wasn't

324
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:09,779
claiming anything I was just telling

325
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:12,600
them what santilly was claiming

326
00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:17,940
so we jump forward to now early 1995

327
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,579
and at this point I'm also Buford as

328
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:23,040
conference organizer

329
00:13:27,290 --> 00:13:24,959
and we're going to we get a videotape

330
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:27,300
setting for Rubio and it's the Roswell

331
00:13:34,129 --> 00:13:30,420
the movie made by Paul Davids starring

332
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:34,139
Cal McLaughlin and Martin Sheen and Sony

333
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:36,120
music was releasing it it was only a

334
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:37,680
small time release there was no big

335
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:40,139
Fanfare we had just been sent a review

336
00:13:45,650 --> 00:13:42,779
copy and it's simply called Roswell it's

337
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:45,660
not bad actually but why did it reminded

338
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:48,839
me about this guy called santilly

339
00:13:53,329 --> 00:13:51,839
and it given me his business card which

340
00:13:54,829 --> 00:13:53,339
I kept you know you know with all the

341
00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:54,839
other business cards as I literally

342
00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:57,000
pulled it out and rang him out of the

343
00:14:00,050 --> 00:13:58,019
blue

344
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:00,060
and I said Ray do you still claim to

345
00:14:03,949 --> 00:14:02,100
have this Roswell footage he says yes

346
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,959
Philip but you don't believe me

347
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:06,480
so I said I can't believe you until you

348
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:07,800
show me it

349
00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:11,220
so he says speak to my secretary

350
00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:14,220
put a date in my diary come on down to

351
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:16,200
London and I'll show you it

352
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:20,220
which I did I went with my wife

353
00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:21,120
um

354
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,700
sent usually his office was on Balkan

355
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,920
Street which is a famous little Street

356
00:14:29,690 --> 00:14:28,079
in its its own right there was the

357
00:14:33,530 --> 00:14:29,700
Balkan Street Seas there where the

358
00:14:36,410 --> 00:14:33,540
embassy was attacked and the SAS went in

359
00:14:38,449 --> 00:14:36,420
and and got all the hostages out that is

360
00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:38,459
but that's where his office is

361
00:14:42,650 --> 00:14:40,920
and it it's not some Grand Place when

362
00:14:44,329 --> 00:14:42,660
he's always it was over about three

363
00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:44,339
floors of people running up and down

364
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:48,660
there's no lift and I sat in his office

365
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,440
and behind Ray behind his desk is a pile

366
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,959
of film canisters big round film

367
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:57,180
canisters in a box

368
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:00,000
and he takes out a videotape switches

369
00:15:05,569 --> 00:15:02,760
the TV on sticks it in

370
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,579
and this very poor quality black and

371
00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:08,160
white film starts to roll

372
00:15:12,829 --> 00:15:11,160
and it's what he called the tent footage

373
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:12,839
a lot of people won't know about this

374
00:15:17,569 --> 00:15:15,120
they'll never have seen it basically

375
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,579
what he said his mysterious cameraman

376
00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:19,440
have been called out there to the crash

377
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:20,579
site

378
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,680
and the creek should have been put in a

379
00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:24,240
field tent before being shipped

380
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,560
elsewhere and

381
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,839
so you've got this thing laid out

382
00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:30,240
covered up but you can see the head and

383
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,820
the hands there's two men the other side

384
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:35,040
of it in white coats

385
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:37,740
this blade glints every now and again

386
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,320
and you see some handling some giblets

387
00:15:45,470 --> 00:15:42,000
or whatever there's an old-fashioned

388
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:45,480
lamp hanging from the ceiling the Jets a

389
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,100
guy walks in front of the camera every

390
00:15:51,769 --> 00:15:49,199
now and again the camera's static but

391
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:51,779
there's no no Dialogue on it

392
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:54,720
and it runs for about eight minutes

393
00:16:01,550 --> 00:15:58,139
you know and he I thought well at least

394
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:01,560
this film you know when we now do have

395
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,440
film you know and to my amazement right

396
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:06,959
gave me a copy of it

397
00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:09,779
on VHS I took it on but before I left

398
00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:13,019
and I'm thinking you know what can I do

399
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:15,000
I he said I've got more

400
00:16:20,269 --> 00:16:18,000
yeah we're processing it now so over the

401
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,279
next few weeks he showed me more film

402
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,680
and this was

403
00:16:28,129 --> 00:16:25,199
what we've all seen on the TV or online

404
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:28,139
as the the alien autopsy film you've got

405
00:16:32,829 --> 00:16:30,420
the creature on the slab

406
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:32,839
two people in hazmat suits you know

407
00:16:38,509 --> 00:16:36,240
dicing and slicing somebody behind the

408
00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:38,519
window and so on but what a lot of

409
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:41,220
people are not aware of uh Vinnie is

410
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,720
actually that's the one there's actually

411
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:44,000
two

412
00:16:51,889 --> 00:16:49,680
showing here where the creature has a

413
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:51,899
big wound on its leg

414
00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:54,300
yeah the other one

415
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,420
yeah there you see it the other autopsy

416
00:17:02,749 --> 00:17:00,079
films the same creature same location

417
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:02,759
but it has no damage

418
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:05,220
and it's a lot brighter and it runs a

419
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:07,020
few minutes longer

420
00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:08,400
and then

421
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:11,160
santially showed us some wreckage he

422
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:12,720
calls it the debris footage you see

423
00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:15,780
these panels and beams and so on okay so

424
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:17,400
I I said to him

425
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,380
what is your intention what are you

426
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:21,600
going to do with this

427
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,339
and he said I'm gonna make my own

428
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,720
documentary

429
00:17:27,470 --> 00:17:26,640
I'd like your help with it Philip I said

430
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,480
okay

431
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,000
uh but in return

432
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:32,400
bear in mind I told you I was in Forest

433
00:17:36,169 --> 00:17:34,080
conference organizer I said why don't

434
00:17:39,409 --> 00:17:36,179
you show at our conference we got one

435
00:17:43,549 --> 00:17:39,419
already organized this year

436
00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:43,559
in Sheffield Hallam University in August

437
00:17:48,409 --> 00:17:46,020
and he said yeah

438
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:48,419
and we saw cans there was no contracts

439
00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:52,020
you know no money involved and um

440
00:17:55,789 --> 00:17:54,120
because the way I looked at it Vinnie

441
00:17:58,130 --> 00:17:55,799
rightly or wrongly

442
00:18:00,049 --> 00:17:58,140
I thought the only way we're gonna get

443
00:18:01,610 --> 00:18:00,059
to know anything about this damn film is

444
00:18:03,890 --> 00:18:01,620
if it's out in the public domain

445
00:18:06,350 --> 00:18:03,900
absolutely yeah and I Knew by

446
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,360
association with the conference we would

447
00:18:09,549 --> 00:18:08,160
be able to do that we always got good

448
00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:09,559
press coverage

449
00:18:16,909 --> 00:18:14,520
and um and he agreed and um

450
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:16,919
a colleague of yours

451
00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:20,460
um played a a very significant part he's

452
00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:24,059
now Dr David Clark yeah good friend of

453
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:27,179
mine yeah it was only David

454
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:33,590
yep so somewhere around

455
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,720
I don't know April time David contacted

456
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:37,679
me

457
00:18:42,049 --> 00:18:39,660
and he said I'm writing a little piece

458
00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:42,059
about a local UFO investigator who's

459
00:18:45,529 --> 00:18:43,620
starting up

460
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:45,539
I know you've got your conference later

461
00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:47,160
in the year for it just give us a few

462
00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:50,280
quotes and you know and I said this that

463
00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:51,780
and the other oh

464
00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:53,580
by the way

465
00:18:59,450 --> 00:18:55,940
dealing autopsies on

466
00:19:01,789 --> 00:18:59,460
so David wrote his article I never saw

467
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:01,799
it until many many years later but then

468
00:19:06,289 --> 00:19:04,260
a couple of days later

469
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:06,299
you know the phone's going mad and it's

470
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:08,100
it's somebody called White's press

471
00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:09,840
agency

472
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,600
and all they wanted to know about was

473
00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:14,640
the alien autopsy film

474
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:16,620
and all I could tell them is what I'd

475
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:19,679
seen and what race until he claimed yeah

476
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:22,020
and I told them I've basically forgot

477
00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:24,900
all about it Vinnie goes to bed gets up

478
00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:26,940
the next morning the fax machine will be

479
00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:28,980
going berserk all night

480
00:19:34,669 --> 00:19:31,980
and there was literally you know

481
00:19:36,409 --> 00:19:34,679
requests for access to this film from

482
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:36,419
around the world

483
00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:38,460
and I thought what the hell and that was

484
00:19:42,409 --> 00:19:40,380
from White's press agency and all I

485
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:42,419
could do was pass them on to Ray

486
00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:45,600
santilly yeah and and that was it you

487
00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:49,080
know the story was then out and um but

488
00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:51,000
to that point there was no media

489
00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:52,700
involved there was no television

490
00:19:57,289 --> 00:19:55,500
involved that I'm aware of it's only

491
00:19:59,150 --> 00:19:57,299
when the story leaked out what it did it

492
00:20:01,130 --> 00:19:59,160
was just it was just an off-the-cuff

493
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:01,140
remark and

494
00:20:05,210 --> 00:20:04,020
um it took off and and it went from

495
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:05,220
there

496
00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:07,020
so where do the other players come into

497
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:09,780
this where does the story start sort of

498
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:12,720
getting uh more questionable let's say

499
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:15,120
because obviously we you know for anyone

500
00:20:19,310 --> 00:20:16,860
that knows the story there's quite a a

501
00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:19,320
cast of characters involved with all of

502
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:23,400
this and and creating it in May of 1995

503
00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:25,200
race until he organized his own

504
00:20:31,789 --> 00:20:28,500
screening of it at the London Museum

505
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:31,799
right and um that basically that was in

506
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:35,340
mainly an invitation for the media I was

507
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:36,240
there

508
00:20:43,370 --> 00:20:40,620
in mind I'd seen this dark tank footage

509
00:20:45,770 --> 00:20:43,380
I'd seen two autopsy films I think this

510
00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:45,780
wreckage I'm fully expecting to see all

511
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:47,700
of this come on the screen

512
00:20:51,529 --> 00:20:49,860
the screen comes on there's no no

513
00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:51,539
introduction and it's just the one

514
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,100
autopsy film

515
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,919
there's no sign of santilly I mean

516
00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:58,559
absolutely no sign of him what we didn't

517
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,900
know we learned much later he was in the

518
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,880
projection pool at the back talking into

519
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,799
the microphone but he forgot to switch

520
00:21:10,190 --> 00:21:06,960
it on

521
00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:10,200
oh my God and there was such a clamor

522
00:21:15,169 --> 00:21:12,840
when this film had finished he liked it

523
00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:15,179
out the back door he'd gone

524
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,340
and I was left there to answer all the

525
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,200
questions from from a lot of the media

526
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:21,480
so that's where that's when the the

527
00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:25,140
television became involved uh Ray showed

528
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:28,140
it at our conference that August to a

529
00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:30,720
packed house and I mean deadly silent I

530
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:33,419
mean people came from all over the place

531
00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:37,200
to see it because the way I thought

532
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:38,760
about it is just let people make up

533
00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:40,380
their own minds you know some of my

534
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,880
colleagues at people Florida weren't so

535
00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:43,919
happy about it but that's just that's

536
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:45,740
you know you can't make everybody happy

537
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,200
uh and my my idea was look if we're not

538
00:21:53,210 --> 00:21:50,880
involved with it somebody else is going

539
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:53,220
to be so why not us you know it fell

540
00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:57,360
into our lap and um I decided again

541
00:22:01,490 --> 00:21:59,820
rightly all wrongly in public and to

542
00:22:03,529 --> 00:22:01,500
race until his face

543
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:03,539
I would say you know I think it's real

544
00:22:07,310 --> 00:22:05,700
Ray you're doing a great job but

545
00:22:09,470 --> 00:22:07,320
underneath I was just trying to find out

546
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:09,480
what it was I was

547
00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:12,600
I was 100 positive that once it went out

548
00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:14,220
on television

549
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,200
that the phone would start ringing or

550
00:22:21,529 --> 00:22:18,840
whatever it is but it went on television

551
00:22:22,909 --> 00:22:21,539
around the world the day after our our

552
00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:22,919
conference

553
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,620
and I'm sat there thinking we'll find

554
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:28,080
out the answers now and it was literally

555
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:30,780
the old says brush thing and not a thing

556
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:32,460
not a word

557
00:22:39,890 --> 00:22:35,580
you know nobody came forward and said

558
00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:39,900
that's me I'm one of the actors or my

559
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:41,820
granddad told me about this film I think

560
00:22:47,710 --> 00:22:45,480
that scene that's in it I mean nothing

561
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:47,720
um of course it was on a huge

562
00:22:54,049 --> 00:22:51,360
documentary called alien in autopsy

563
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:54,059
factor or fiction in the US I was

564
00:22:58,909 --> 00:22:56,460
interviewed for that it was so popular

565
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:58,919
they had to do another two specials

566
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:02,400
after it and our additional bits it was

567
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:05,460
the biggest selling documentary of the

568
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:07,320
year on video

569
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,740
I mean tens of million I mean you know

570
00:23:15,529 --> 00:23:12,840
so I'm thinking you know we'll find out

571
00:23:18,649 --> 00:23:15,539
the answers now but it just went quiet

572
00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:18,659
I mean nobody said a word

573
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,460
so it's a question of where did we go

574
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:22,559
from here so all we had

575
00:23:28,370 --> 00:23:25,140
was the film itself

576
00:23:30,590 --> 00:23:28,380
very much until he had only released one

577
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:30,600
autopsy film and the so-called debris

578
00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:34,260
footage so you start with that

579
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:36,600
is there anything on the film

580
00:23:43,850 --> 00:23:41,280
that is not Circa 1947.

581
00:23:45,529 --> 00:23:43,860
no there isn't some people thought their

582
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:45,539
phone on there was a phone I hanging on

583
00:23:51,649 --> 00:23:49,440
the wall it's got a curly Flex yeah oh

584
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:51,659
you didn't have a curly Flex in 194 well

585
00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:53,100
you did you just had to pay a bit extra

586
00:23:58,610 --> 00:23:57,480
for it you know it was there now the

587
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:58,620
instruments

588
00:24:03,770 --> 00:24:01,380
the next thing we what we did was we

589
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:03,780
asked the medical profession if this is

590
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:06,720
an autopsy what and you'd be surprised

591
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,360
how many were impressed by it you know

592
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,159
you didn't see anything drastically

593
00:24:13,610 --> 00:24:12,720
wrong

594
00:24:16,669 --> 00:24:13,620
um

595
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,679
we are special effects experts all of

596
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:18,480
them said yeah I could do it with enough

597
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:21,720
money and I said that's okay if it's a

598
00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:23,220
special effects

599
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:25,620
who the hell did it

600
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:27,900
because the special effects industry

601
00:24:33,649 --> 00:24:31,200
certainly in the UK is not huge

602
00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:33,659
and I started with one company and they

603
00:24:38,330 --> 00:24:35,220
said it looks like Fred

604
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:38,340
so I would ring Fred and I say it wasn't

605
00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:40,140
you friend he said no it looks like Bill

606
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:42,120
and I'd ring Bill Bill sale looks like

607
00:24:46,970 --> 00:24:44,100
so-and-so I never got the same name

608
00:24:49,610 --> 00:24:46,980
twice I just would go around and round

609
00:24:51,070 --> 00:24:49,620
and round in circles you know

610
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:51,080
so

611
00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:57,600
it claimed you know the film is in the

612
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:00,360
canister the canister is in a box and

613
00:25:04,370 --> 00:25:02,760
the box has got a sealed with a label

614
00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:04,380
over the top

615
00:25:08,990 --> 00:25:06,840
you know and it's got a stamp on it it's

616
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:09,000
a military stamp and there's blurb about

617
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:11,100
it you know when it was filmed and so on

618
00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:13,500
yeah now the official stamp is a

619
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:16,140
military stamp somebody said that's like

620
00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:17,700
you know that's not the right ear but

621
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:19,980
when we looked into it it was so it was

622
00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:22,320
from the right era so there was nothing

623
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:24,840
outstanding

624
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,299
um that would could point you

625
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:30,000
uh and say it's you know that proves

626
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:31,200
it's a fake

627
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:32,820
you know

628
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:36,360
um so again I thought well I'll just

629
00:25:42,169 --> 00:25:39,000
try and and do whatever I can I'll I'll

630
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:42,179
be nice to Ray I'm on each side

631
00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:44,340
but it's like the proverbial Ducky on my

632
00:25:48,529 --> 00:25:46,140
feet were paddling like but Jesus under

633
00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:48,539
the water trying to find out what what

634
00:26:02,269 --> 00:25:53,269
and

635
00:26:04,610 --> 00:26:02,279
now so time's gone by

636
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:04,620
you know the the alien autopsy film is

637
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:06,000
still being discussed we've now got

638
00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:09,299
internet and emails and so on I got an

639
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,120
email from a guy uh one day

640
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,400
and he said I knew who made the alien

641
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:16,799
autopsy film

642
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,120
fair enough you know good you know who

643
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:23,760
and I said give us your phone number

644
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:26,220
and I rang him up

645
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:28,620
they told me the story he says I work as

646
00:27:48,110 --> 00:26:29,520
a

647
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:48,120
however

648
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:49,980
there was still the director's home

649
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,900
address attached to it

650
00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:53,760
right so the gentleman called Keith

651
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:55,320
Bateman

652
00:27:59,930 --> 00:27:57,240
that was the key to have been talking to

653
00:28:03,110 --> 00:27:59,940
in his office so I wrote

654
00:28:04,730 --> 00:28:03,120
got no reply basically and I you know I

655
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:04,740
said look you know

656
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:07,320
I spoke to him on the phone and he it

657
00:28:11,529 --> 00:28:09,179
was like a politician he spoke a lot but

658
00:28:15,409 --> 00:28:11,539
he didn't tell you much yeah

659
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:15,419
and in the end I thought I know it's him

660
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:18,480
uh and I put the newspaper on to him and

661
00:28:21,230 --> 00:28:19,980
a newspaper got hold of him and got an

662
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,240
interview with him

663
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,279
obviously Keith had got paid a few

664
00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:25,799
hundred pounds maybe for his story but

665
00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:28,380
what happened was Keith said we used to

666
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:30,299
do business every now and again with Ray

667
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:34,080
santilly didn't work for him we worked

668
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:34,860
with

669
00:28:41,450 --> 00:28:37,740
right and he said on occasions we'd sit

670
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,460
down informally and kind of brainstorm

671
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:43,740
this is most of what we did was you know

672
00:28:47,570 --> 00:28:45,600
come up with a dash stupid things we'd

673
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:47,580
fall about laughing you know but he said

674
00:28:51,529 --> 00:28:48,960
one day

675
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:51,539
Ray santilly says you know if we had

676
00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:53,340
some Roswell footage we could really

677
00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:54,900
make some money

678
00:28:58,190 --> 00:28:56,820
just so happened that one of Keith's

679
00:29:00,909 --> 00:28:58,200
employees

680
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,919
was reading a UFO book

681
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:03,600
well in it

682
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:06,659
so Keith off on his own initiative not

683
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,580
at Sam till his behest on his own

684
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:10,320
initiative

685
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:13,799
went to a friend's Farm in bedfordshire

686
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,860
got his son on a trestle table

687
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:19,320
to lay him down and he made an alien's

688
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,159
head out of a polystyrene uh head that

689
00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:25,679
you put wigs on yeah put big black eyes

690
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:27,659
on it stuck that on the top

691
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:30,720
he got two he got two friends to wear

692
00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:32,940
the white coats they got some giblets

693
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:35,340
from a local butcher the man seen

694
00:29:39,769 --> 00:29:37,020
walking in front of the camera is

695
00:29:42,769 --> 00:29:39,779
actually the farmer himself and they

696
00:29:47,330 --> 00:29:42,779
filmed it now this was the so-called

697
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:47,340
tent footage okay and it was shot in

698
00:29:51,769 --> 00:29:49,860
color to take it back to their offices

699
00:29:53,870 --> 00:29:51,779
they run it through the computer they

700
00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:53,880
change it to black and white they put

701
00:29:58,909 --> 00:29:55,980
scratches and whatever you're on it

702
00:30:01,070 --> 00:29:58,919
Keith takes it to rayson tiller

703
00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:01,080
so there you go you want us some Roswell

704
00:30:06,110 --> 00:30:03,480
footage have a look at this

705
00:30:07,310 --> 00:30:06,120
and essentially plays it and he said

706
00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:07,320
that's rubbish

707
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:09,240
you know I need something more

708
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:11,340
substantive something that will make

709
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,380
your eyeballs pop out

710
00:30:18,049 --> 00:30:15,899
so Keith allegedly went away and spoke

711
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:18,059
to some special effects guys and they

712
00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:21,779
quoted him 30 or 40 000 pounds it's

713
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:23,399
until they said get lost you know that's

714
00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:27,059
too much however he kept the tent

715
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:30,600
footage yeah he kept it so that you know

716
00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:33,720
the the touch paper had been lit and it

717
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,740
was now burning in santilly's brain

718
00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:40,320
and when he contacted Buford and he was

719
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:42,059
putting out moving onto US of course

720
00:30:45,169 --> 00:30:43,980
it's putting out The Feelers to see if

721
00:30:48,289 --> 00:30:45,179
there would have been interested in any

722
00:30:50,690 --> 00:30:48,299
of this kind of thing and

723
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:50,700
again we jumped forward in time so

724
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:53,580
santially said no he said they he said

725
00:31:00,350 --> 00:30:56,880
we you said we took film to AK music to

726
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:00,360
be transferred onto on onto video

727
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:03,360
and when they got it it was blank it was

728
00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:05,820
ruined and they played a trick on me

729
00:31:10,190 --> 00:31:07,620
they brought this back and said this is

730
00:31:12,590 --> 00:31:10,200
the real stuff it said it was only a

731
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,600
long time later when I showed it to the

732
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:14,640
cameraman he said I don't know what that

733
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:17,039
is you know and they disassociated

734
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,320
themselves from it so it it kind of

735
00:31:22,570 --> 00:31:21,360
wriggled out of it despite what Keith

736
00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:22,580
was saying

737
00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:24,600
and um

738
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:26,580
so we progress again

739
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,980
and I'm sticking at it and I used to say

740
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,720
to myself every now and again I'll I'll

741
00:31:35,090 --> 00:31:32,880
shake the alien or something tree and

742
00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:35,100
see if anything falls out

743
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:38,520
and we mentioned gray and Birdsall

744
00:31:44,029 --> 00:31:40,679
yeah I am at this point was now

745
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:44,039
publisher and editor of UFO magazine a

746
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:46,260
new stem publication selling very well

747
00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:49,919
and I wrote him an article about the Lin

748
00:31:54,110 --> 00:31:51,720
autopsy film

749
00:31:56,029 --> 00:31:54,120
and he put it on the front page

750
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:56,039
so you know you've got a picture of it

751
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,559
and all this again

752
00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:00,240
that's an email out of the blue from

753
00:32:04,730 --> 00:32:02,220
from a chap

754
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:04,740
called himself Simon

755
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,240
and he said I didn't realize there was

756
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:08,159
any interest in the alien autopsy film

757
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,500
you know I thought it was all dead

758
00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:12,960
I said well much of this the discussion

759
00:32:20,029 --> 00:32:16,500
is now online it's not in the newspapers

760
00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:20,039
it's not on TV it's all online so

761
00:32:24,889 --> 00:32:22,500
eventually I got Simon's

762
00:32:27,409 --> 00:32:24,899
uh telephone number

763
00:32:31,090 --> 00:32:27,419
and I spoke to him and he said well

764
00:32:34,029 --> 00:32:31,100
My Pal made the dummies for it

765
00:32:36,649 --> 00:32:34,039
would anyone be interested

766
00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:36,659
So when you say anyone who do you mean

767
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,620
anyone

768
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:39,600
I said because I would he says I mean

769
00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:45,830
so I said possibly so we arranged to

770
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:48,299
meet in Manchester he he actually picked

771
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:50,760
a cafe for us to meet in Manchester why

772
00:32:57,049 --> 00:32:53,520
Manchester I have no idea the cafe we

773
00:32:59,149 --> 00:32:57,059
met in was completely open it was glass

774
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,159
all the way around so you could you know

775
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:01,440
you couldn't hide in it yeah full

776
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:02,640
matching

777
00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:06,240
and it was about my age you know it was

778
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,220
a nice chip

779
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:11,039
and they said my My Pal is wanting to

780
00:33:15,769 --> 00:33:13,980
basically cash in not to tell the story

781
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:15,779
he made the dummies for the alien

782
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:19,260
autopsy film that's the one who was he

783
00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:22,200
said I can't tell you

784
00:33:26,509 --> 00:33:23,940
I said well the only person I know that

785
00:33:29,630 --> 00:33:26,519
my interested is the guy that made the

786
00:33:31,490 --> 00:33:29,640
documentary in the states alien autopsy

787
00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,500
factor of fiction the chap called Bob

788
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:34,019
kibiot Bob and I had kept in touch still

789
00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:35,880
in touch today

790
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,340
and I said when I get home I will email

791
00:33:42,889 --> 00:33:40,799
you his contact details it's up to you

792
00:33:44,509 --> 00:33:42,899
then so with chatting away you know he

793
00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:44,519
gets another cup of coffee

794
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:47,880
and he lets sleep that his friend

795
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:50,580
had been responsible for making a a

796
00:33:54,529 --> 00:33:53,700
dummy for a a well-known

797
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:54,539
um

798
00:33:58,250 --> 00:33:57,179
Channel 4 television show called Matt's

799
00:34:00,529 --> 00:33:58,260
Headroom

800
00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:00,539
right yeah I remember that yeah and Max

801
00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:02,760
was this head and it wobbled and he

802
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:04,440
talked

803
00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:07,080
so you know the internet wasn't as good

804
00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:09,720
as it is now but a dog and a dog and a

805
00:34:14,270 --> 00:34:12,179
dog and a dog and I found the name of

806
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:14,280
the guy who made the head

807
00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:17,760
and it wasn't a special effects expert

808
00:34:24,169 --> 00:34:21,540
he was a Sculptor and his name was John

809
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,179
Humphries he'd gone to the Royal College

810
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:26,399
of Arts or you know

811
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:28,919
and then on occasion his work overlapped

812
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:34,190
um so what got his name now

813
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:35,940
but that was about it I couldn't find

814
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:37,800
him there's no contact telephone number

815
00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:41,700
for him however Bob kibia did you know

816
00:34:47,389 --> 00:34:43,740
got in touch with Simon

817
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,399
they agreed a deal and

818
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:49,679
John Humphries was about to Spill the

819
00:34:55,369 --> 00:34:53,040
Beans when everything stopped

820
00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:55,379
and it's it's he said I can't do any

821
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:57,300
more I'm not can't see anything what

822
00:35:00,589 --> 00:34:58,680
happened

823
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,599
we didn't know this at the time is that

824
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:02,640
Ray santiliani's business partner Gary

825
00:35:06,650 --> 00:35:05,880
shufield had just signed a contract to

826
00:35:09,730 --> 00:35:06,660
make

827
00:35:14,030 --> 00:35:09,740
alien autopsy the movie

828
00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:14,040
John Humphries was hired to make the

829
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,140
dummies for it so he was now under

830
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,480
contract what's funny with it what's

831
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:21,119
what's really funny

832
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:23,760
is I was working for a small publisher

833
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,440
that in Leeds

834
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:27,480
the old lady called Heather she got her

835
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:29,040
own little company she was starting up

836
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:31,260
and I I was working there

837
00:35:35,870 --> 00:35:34,140
and she says my boyfriend's coming

838
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,880
we're gonna have lunch

839
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:37,440
we didn't know she had a boyfriend so

840
00:35:41,870 --> 00:35:39,180
this fellow arrived says oh he lives in

841
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:41,880
London smartly dressed briefcase you

842
00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:44,220
know very affable that's what you do he

843
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:45,599
says well I'm actually a trained

844
00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:46,740
barrister

845
00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:49,140
but I don't practice in court I do

846
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:53,099
contract law you know oh great

847
00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:55,920
and uh Heather view of my involvement in

848
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:58,200
the UFO subject and the alien autopsy

849
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,440
film and he's you know he says I've got

850
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,359
something you'll be interested in

851
00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:05,280
he says what's that

852
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:08,280
it says I've got the contract

853
00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:10,920
for the alien autopsy movie Ray santilly

854
00:36:16,910 --> 00:36:13,020
and Gary shoefield they are clients of

855
00:36:18,290 --> 00:36:16,920
mine wow and he literally showed me the

856
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:18,300
concept

857
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,940
and I was able to flip through it I was

858
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:22,800
kind of looking if I could get him to go

859
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:24,180
to the bathroom when I can make a

860
00:36:30,530 --> 00:36:26,700
photocopy on that you know

861
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:30,540
so I thanked him profusely of course not

862
00:36:36,109 --> 00:36:33,440
long after that I think it was my last

863
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,119
ever meeting with Ray and Gary I went

864
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,880
down to London on the train to meet them

865
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,800
would leave me at the office we went to

866
00:36:45,290 --> 00:36:42,960
this like an old like a gentleman's club

867
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:45,300
nearby very very extravagant and what

868
00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:47,040
happened to drink and they're very

869
00:36:51,050 --> 00:36:48,780
chatty

870
00:36:53,329 --> 00:36:51,060
um Gary schuefield I didn't like it

871
00:36:55,490 --> 00:36:53,339
raised raised a very nice guy to get

872
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:55,500
along with you know

873
00:36:58,609 --> 00:36:56,220
um

874
00:37:00,410 --> 00:36:58,619
and they get you know giving it all this

875
00:37:02,329 --> 00:37:00,420
and I'm just sat there thinking this is

876
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,339
completely I'm not so BS you know what I

877
00:37:06,050 --> 00:37:05,040
mean and I said I've got some news for

878
00:37:09,050 --> 00:37:06,060
you guys

879
00:37:10,490 --> 00:37:09,060
even what he says I know you've signed

880
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:10,500
to do the movie

881
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:13,740
what movie I tell them

882
00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:15,900
you know nobody knew with the ant and

883
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:17,640
deck we're going to play the parts of

884
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:20,040
Gary and right I did I even knew how

885
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:21,960
much the budget was and how much money

886
00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:24,240
they were getting and I told them you

887
00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:26,240
should have seen the look on their face

888
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:28,740
they didn't know what to say

889
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,740
well I followed it up I actually lied

890
00:37:35,569 --> 00:37:33,599
myself I made other things up because

891
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,579
they obviously knew that that part of

892
00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:37,680
what I'm saying is true

893
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:40,740
so I also you know said I know a lot

894
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:43,680
more about you two guys you know and

895
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:46,680
that was the last time I saw them you

896
00:37:49,609 --> 00:37:47,339
know

897
00:37:50,990 --> 00:37:49,619
and of course the anthem deck film was

898
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:51,000
made

899
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:54,300
it wasn't hugely successful

900
00:37:59,630 --> 00:37:57,119
um ant and DEC have never made another

901
00:38:01,609 --> 00:37:59,640
movie since they've never done any

902
00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:01,619
acting since apparently they started off

903
00:38:06,589 --> 00:38:04,500
as child actors you know I think I read

904
00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:06,599
an article sometime later that that film

905
00:38:11,810 --> 00:38:09,900
had scuppered their acting career

906
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:11,820
I think it was a bit unfair because they

907
00:38:16,970 --> 00:38:14,400
they play good parts and it wasn't a

908
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:16,980
great film it wasn't rubbish

909
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:19,740
so you know they changed the story now

910
00:38:23,329 --> 00:38:21,599
that santilly had changed the story

911
00:38:25,609 --> 00:38:23,339
there was a

912
00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:25,619
um a documentary to help promote the

913
00:38:30,650 --> 00:38:28,140
movie uh with Eamonn Holmes as the

914
00:38:33,550 --> 00:38:30,660
presenter yeah and hey Presto who did

915
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:33,560
they bring on John Humphries

916
00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:35,940
Johnny's saying all these guys brought

917
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:37,140
me some film

918
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:40,320
and I I based the alien autopsy on on

919
00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:42,660
the film but um we only had a few scraps

920
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,700
most of it had rotted away but but there

921
00:38:49,310 --> 00:38:47,040
is real film you know

922
00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:49,320
and I thought well you know the so Ray

923
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:52,260
and Gary changed their story now they

924
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:54,660
called it you know we've you know we've

925
00:38:59,329 --> 00:38:57,599
got this film and we've re recreate

926
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:59,339
restored it they called it we've

927
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:01,440
restored it

928
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,119
um but only in mind there was two

929
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,220
autopsy films this you know one seems to

930
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:06,720
have disappeared and been forgotten

931
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:08,940
about yeah

932
00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:11,760
so again you know they're not telling

933
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:13,560
anything we haven't got

934
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:16,079
I'm just by this time nobody believes

935
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:17,520
them nobody in the right mind believes

936
00:39:22,250 --> 00:39:19,680
them anyway

937
00:39:24,109 --> 00:39:22,260
but I'm thinking we still can't prove it

938
00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:24,119
you know a hundred percent there's still

939
00:39:28,730 --> 00:39:26,460
not enough proof there

940
00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:28,740
sometime later again

941
00:39:32,089 --> 00:39:30,540
uh I was working with an old colleague

942
00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:32,099
of mine that's the son-in-law of gray

943
00:39:35,329 --> 00:39:33,180
and birds so it's called Russell

944
00:39:38,089 --> 00:39:35,339
Callahan Russ started his own little

945
00:39:40,370 --> 00:39:38,099
magazine called UFO data

946
00:39:43,550 --> 00:39:40,380
uh and I'd I'd write a few things for

947
00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:43,560
him Russ's phone goes one day Russ and I

948
00:39:48,349 --> 00:39:45,900
had been interviewed Keith Bateman

949
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,359
I'm one of two others and Russell made a

950
00:39:54,109 --> 00:39:50,160
little video

951
00:39:56,930 --> 00:39:54,119
and uh got a phone call and something's

952
00:39:58,670 --> 00:39:56,940
inquiring about this video

953
00:40:00,410 --> 00:39:58,680
and you know

954
00:40:02,990 --> 00:40:00,420
and this fellow on the end of the home

955
00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:03,000
says I'm the man who made the alien

956
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:07,730
so

957
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:09,900
Russ says well you don't need to be

958
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:11,339
speaking to me you need to be speaking

959
00:40:15,290 --> 00:40:13,440
to Philip yeah and he got his phone

960
00:40:16,450 --> 00:40:15,300
number around him

961
00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:16,460
now

962
00:40:22,010 --> 00:40:19,140
we've got half a name

963
00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:22,020
this had come up in conversation with

964
00:40:28,490 --> 00:40:25,560
people at the film company who made

965
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,500
the art and deck film we got half a name

966
00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:30,720
and it was just a first name

967
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:33,180
and it's it was Spiros

968
00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:35,160
they meant nothing to me he's typed

969
00:40:38,750 --> 00:40:37,500
Spiros in Google

970
00:40:41,390 --> 00:40:38,760
you know

971
00:40:42,890 --> 00:40:41,400
so I Rings this bloke

972
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:42,900
and I said that's what's your name and

973
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,540
he says my name's Spiros malari so ding

974
00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:48,480
dong ding dong ding dong the bells

975
00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:51,900
started ringing and Spiros I had my tape

976
00:40:57,530 --> 00:40:53,700
recorder on so I was recalling it just

977
00:41:00,410 --> 00:40:57,540
in case told us the whole story

978
00:41:02,329 --> 00:41:00,420
and the the missing parts of the puzzle

979
00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:02,339
are falling into place as he's telling

980
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:05,640
me and then arranges a more formal

981
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:06,480
um

982
00:41:10,910 --> 00:41:09,060
phone conversation where I could have

983
00:41:12,290 --> 00:41:10,920
time to write some questions out and ask

984
00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:12,300
him because I didn't know what he was

985
00:41:17,569 --> 00:41:14,280
going to say to begin with

986
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:17,579
spin-offs filming he was a filmmaker

987
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:20,280
uh he was a magician

988
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,380
it served his apprenticeship as a

989
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,480
multi-mechanic

990
00:41:30,109 --> 00:41:26,880
um and he said he had a little film

991
00:41:32,210 --> 00:41:30,119
business they do pop pop promos you know

992
00:41:36,650 --> 00:41:32,220
film any damn thing

993
00:41:38,210 --> 00:41:36,660
every year in can there is a a TV Film

994
00:41:39,950 --> 00:41:38,220
Festival

995
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:39,960
and this is this year I'm going out to

996
00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:41,220
count I'm going to be doing a bit of

997
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:43,380
filming but I've got some spare time so

998
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:46,560
we had a trade uh publication with all

999
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:49,680
the different television companies and

1000
00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:51,599
their contact details there they said I

1001
00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:52,680
picked

1002
00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:54,599
it says maybe a half a dozen or a dozen

1003
00:41:59,569 --> 00:41:57,180
that were pretty near to where our we

1004
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:59,579
were located and I faxed them

1005
00:42:04,910 --> 00:42:01,920
basically saying

1006
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:04,920
what income we have a film crew if you

1007
00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:07,680
need one we've got time on our hands of

1008
00:42:13,150 --> 00:42:09,780
course one of those places he sent a fax

1009
00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:13,160
to was the Merlin group

1010
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:17,460
he met Ray out in can they had a chat

1011
00:42:22,849 --> 00:42:20,099
you know Ray tells him this fantastic

1012
00:42:26,569 --> 00:42:22,859
story about this alien autopsy film

1013
00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:26,579
this you know footies the cameraman

1014
00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:28,980
let's put us is thinking okay you know

1015
00:42:34,310 --> 00:42:32,220
anyway for whatever reason he decides to

1016
00:42:36,109 --> 00:42:34,320
go to send to his office

1017
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:36,119
and have a look

1018
00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:38,220
and the film that he played in was the

1019
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:40,200
10 footage because that's all he had of

1020
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:43,140
course yeah strudels says it's a fake

1021
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:45,240
I can tell you it's a fake

1022
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:48,060
well so santioli said uh you know I laid

1023
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:49,740
a lot of money out for this and I'm

1024
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:51,240
gonna get home

1025
00:42:56,690 --> 00:42:54,420
so spinos is driving home

1026
00:42:58,730 --> 00:42:56,700
and any and again he has a light bulb

1027
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:58,740
moment and thinking well I'm my best

1028
00:43:01,970 --> 00:42:59,760
friend

1029
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:01,980
is John Humphries

1030
00:43:06,829 --> 00:43:04,920
a world-class Sculptor

1031
00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:06,839
I wonder

1032
00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:12,599
chat they go back to santilly with a

1033
00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:16,140
proposal and how much it'll cost

1034
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:19,560
and hey Presto the alien autopsy film as

1035
00:43:25,849 --> 00:43:22,560
we you know love it I hate it was born

1036
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:25,859
so the guy behind it was Spiros milaris

1037
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:29,280
the man who made the dummies was John

1038
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:32,160
Humphries santilly had little

1039
00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:34,440
import Gary schulfill I've no input in

1040
00:43:39,170 --> 00:43:37,140
it whatsoever and of course the name

1041
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:39,180
Spielberg cropped up at some point and

1042
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:40,800
everyone was thinking Steven Spielberg

1043
00:43:46,609 --> 00:43:43,020
it was actually santilly's business

1044
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:46,619
associate in Germany he's called Volker

1045
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:49,920
Spielberg the one that put up the money

1046
00:43:55,069 --> 00:43:51,380
for it

1047
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:55,079
at the time so the Spielberg was

1048
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,319
involved he was actually there

1049
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,780
on May the first when they had this the

1050
00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:02,640
screening in in the London Museum but

1051
00:44:06,770 --> 00:44:04,980
nobody knew who the hell he was it's

1052
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:06,780
only looking at some photographs that

1053
00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:09,060
were taken at the event later there's

1054
00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:11,579
this strange fella and that was volca

1055
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:13,380
Spielberg that's the only photograph we

1056
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,700
have of him

1057
00:44:20,329 --> 00:44:16,880
um but he was the mysterious Spielberg

1058
00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:20,339
and Spiros told me everything

1059
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:22,380
so I said okay

1060
00:44:26,329 --> 00:44:24,420
no disrespect

1061
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:26,339
you have to prove it

1062
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:28,200
your story on the end of a telephone

1063
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:30,960
it's just like send Tilly's story

1064
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:33,599
you know for all I know you could be a

1065
00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:35,160
business associate of isn't you just

1066
00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:37,140
trying to you know throw some mock at

1067
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:40,380
him so again I arranged a day with my

1068
00:44:45,770 --> 00:44:43,500
wife and went down to to spiros's house

1069
00:44:48,710 --> 00:44:45,780
it got out everything he could lay his

1070
00:44:51,890 --> 00:44:48,720
hands on even on his diary from 1995

1071
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:51,900
with meetings in it and phone numbers

1072
00:44:57,250 --> 00:44:54,060
um he got out

1073
00:44:59,690 --> 00:44:57,260
um boxes of paperwork there were faxes

1074
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,700
from Kodak

1075
00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:01,920
because one of the big contentious

1076
00:45:04,910 --> 00:45:03,420
issues was that the film had these

1077
00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:04,920
little codes on them

1078
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:07,319
you know little symbols and these

1079
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:08,640
symbols represented the year of

1080
00:45:15,710 --> 00:45:11,760
manufacture right yeah should I get a

1081
00:45:19,490 --> 00:45:15,720
faxing Spiros back and say 1947 is this

1082
00:45:21,950 --> 00:45:19,500
and this you know so we knew what

1083
00:45:27,550 --> 00:45:21,960
and all kinds of stuff

1084
00:45:34,609 --> 00:45:31,069
you know a whole range of paintings

1085
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:34,619
so he he made it the alien autopsy he

1086
00:45:40,190 --> 00:45:36,780
did a storyboard in effect and he

1087
00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:40,200
painted it I've got one of them here

1088
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:42,900
that's one of them it's not oh wow this

1089
00:45:48,530 --> 00:45:45,180
was done by somebody else based on on

1090
00:45:50,930 --> 00:45:48,540
one of spiros's paintings right and

1091
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:50,940
another thing he had for example

1092
00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:54,540
he had a huge file folder of American

1093
00:45:57,950 --> 00:45:56,460
military vehicles

1094
00:46:00,050 --> 00:45:57,960
and I'm talking

1095
00:46:01,430 --> 00:46:00,060
dozens and dozens and dozens of them

1096
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,440
that's what the hell do you want them

1097
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:03,359
for it's what we were also going to do

1098
00:46:08,569 --> 00:46:05,040
he says we were going to make a flying

1099
00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:08,579
saucer crash wow you'd have the crash in

1100
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:10,380
the background you know the thing in in

1101
00:46:14,450 --> 00:46:11,640
the desert

1102
00:46:16,670 --> 00:46:14,460
you would have a vehicle

1103
00:46:17,569 --> 00:46:16,680
and would have an actor made up as

1104
00:46:20,510 --> 00:46:17,579
president

1105
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:23,270
and we would tell him what to say and

1106
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:24,960
then if you could lip read you'd be able

1107
00:46:30,109 --> 00:46:27,720
to see what he was saying and he said I

1108
00:46:32,089 --> 00:46:30,119
was going to use this truck here

1109
00:46:37,210 --> 00:46:32,099
he said but I was going to build just

1110
00:46:42,109 --> 00:46:40,370
but I would use that number plate so if

1111
00:46:44,569 --> 00:46:42,119
you could go and check military number

1112
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:44,579
plates it would turn out to be a real

1113
00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:48,960
vehicle from 1947. you know and he got I

1114
00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:52,140
needed more and more and more stuff so

1115
00:46:56,510 --> 00:46:54,839
there was no question that he was behind

1116
00:46:57,470 --> 00:46:56,520
it and I said well why have you decided

1117
00:47:02,030 --> 00:46:57,480
to

1118
00:47:02,930 --> 00:47:02,040
he said well we had an agreement between

1119
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:02,940
us

1120
00:47:08,030 --> 00:47:04,800
that you know we wouldn't say anything

1121
00:47:10,849 --> 00:47:08,040
because he said originally

1122
00:47:13,490 --> 00:47:10,859
it wasn't made to make any money

1123
00:47:15,770 --> 00:47:13,500
the idea we had behind it was we'd make

1124
00:47:19,309 --> 00:47:15,780
it we'd let it out there

1125
00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:19,319
and then six months 12 months later we'd

1126
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,500
go Tada aren't we great

1127
00:47:26,329 --> 00:47:24,480
in the hope that people will then say

1128
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,339
these guys fooled everybody we better

1129
00:47:30,589 --> 00:47:28,079
get we better we can hire these guys

1130
00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:30,599
sure yeah yeah he says every time I went

1131
00:47:34,250 --> 00:47:32,520
to see santilly about it it just said I

1132
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:34,260
haven't made my money back

1133
00:47:40,190 --> 00:47:36,420
you know Spiros I didn't have a clue

1134
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:42,470
had no idea about the TV deals that were

1135
00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:43,619
being done

1136
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:46,380
didn't know and it's only

1137
00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:48,780
when the ant and DEC film was was

1138
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:50,280
started was was going to be made

1139
00:47:54,410 --> 00:47:52,260
essentially went to show him

1140
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:54,420
and something we said this is enough

1141
00:47:59,690 --> 00:47:56,940
right enough of this nonsense you know

1142
00:48:01,550 --> 00:47:59,700
we've got to tell people the story so he

1143
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,560
said once they made the movie as far as

1144
00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:03,119
I were concerned that you know our

1145
00:48:06,829 --> 00:48:05,579
agreement was finished and he started

1146
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:06,839
looking round

1147
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:08,819
for the first time to see what happened

1148
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:11,940
to them in autopsy film and his jaw fell

1149
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:14,640
off you know he was and he was going

1150
00:48:19,609 --> 00:48:17,700
around all the different products that

1151
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:19,619
mentioned the alien autopsy one of which

1152
00:48:24,530 --> 00:48:21,780
was Russell's little DVD that he'd made

1153
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:24,540
himself you know and that's why he rang

1154
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,359
him because basically he's saying

1155
00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:30,000
well the film you see

1156
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,700
that everybody's seen on television are

1157
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,079
online

1158
00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:37,200
he says I actually own it

1159
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:39,480
the reason why I own it is because we

1160
00:48:42,290 --> 00:48:40,800
filmed one

1161
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:42,300
before it

1162
00:48:47,569 --> 00:48:45,480
right that is the autopsy that has no

1163
00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:47,579
defects in it whatsoever

1164
00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:50,460
and he said my girlfriend at the time

1165
00:48:56,210 --> 00:48:53,160
she did all the medical things

1166
00:48:58,670 --> 00:48:56,220
and we were playing it back and she said

1167
00:49:01,970 --> 00:48:58,680
you've done something wrong there that

1168
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:01,980
would never ever do that in an autopsy

1169
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,900
so if you let that out

1170
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:05,280
you're finished

1171
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:07,079
straight away

1172
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,900
so he said we had run out of money

1173
00:49:14,270 --> 00:49:12,480
santilly was you know shaking his head

1174
00:49:16,490 --> 00:49:14,280
didn't know what to do

1175
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:16,500
so Spiro says

1176
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:19,200
I will pay the crew and the costs will

1177
00:49:23,630 --> 00:49:21,240
make another one

1178
00:49:25,550 --> 00:49:23,640
so they already got the mold for the for

1179
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:25,560
the creature the alien

1180
00:49:30,770 --> 00:49:28,319
John Humphries does his magic

1181
00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:30,780
they open them all in the morning and of

1182
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:33,180
course there's a fault with it there's a

1183
00:49:35,470 --> 00:49:34,319
hole in the leg they've been in our

1184
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:35,480
pocket

1185
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:38,640
okay they improvised they get a Bunsen

1186
00:49:43,550 --> 00:49:40,920
burner or whatever they burn it

1187
00:49:45,530 --> 00:49:43,560
he sends John to the butcher to get a

1188
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:45,540
bone and they put that in it so there's

1189
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:47,359
a bone joint in it as well so they

1190
00:49:52,550 --> 00:49:50,040
improvise that is the one that

1191
00:49:55,609 --> 00:49:52,560
everybody's seen and that's why Spiro

1192
00:49:58,970 --> 00:49:55,619
says I own that because I paid for it

1193
00:50:01,250 --> 00:49:58,980
sure right makes sense I paid for that

1194
00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:01,260
and he went to the copyright office and

1195
00:50:05,089 --> 00:50:03,420
he had to show his proof and they have

1196
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,099
given him a copyright license they

1197
00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:07,440
haven't withdrawal it from santilly you

1198
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:09,540
have to go to court for that but okay

1199
00:50:14,990 --> 00:50:12,180
but Spiros does have a legal copyright

1200
00:50:17,089 --> 00:50:15,000
ownership of that and

1201
00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:17,099
and the debris film

1202
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,460
and what's what's it's the little

1203
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,040
details that between it also add up

1204
00:50:28,370 --> 00:50:25,680
Spiros told us he says we you know we

1205
00:50:30,829 --> 00:50:28,380
made the creature the first one put it

1206
00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:30,839
laid out on the slab it's perfect you

1207
00:50:36,349 --> 00:50:33,540
know we dissect it take the giblets out

1208
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,359
take the brain out on it

1209
00:50:40,490 --> 00:50:37,920
and then we realized we've made a

1210
00:50:42,890 --> 00:50:40,500
mistake he said we're literally left it

1211
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:42,900
on the slab because they'd set this up

1212
00:50:47,569 --> 00:50:45,119
in his sister's apartment you know flat

1213
00:50:49,069 --> 00:50:47,579
she was having it renovated so it didn't

1214
00:50:51,790 --> 00:50:49,079
make any difference they built the set

1215
00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:51,800
you know

1216
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,420
we'll reset the mold tonight we'll come

1217
00:50:58,430 --> 00:50:55,680
back and we'll make another one tomorrow

1218
00:51:01,790 --> 00:50:58,440
when they came back the following day

1219
00:51:03,730 --> 00:51:01,800
the door was open of the house the flat

1220
00:51:07,010 --> 00:51:03,740
and I thought oh [\h__\h]

1221
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,020
and had actually been robbed

1222
00:51:11,630 --> 00:51:08,960
and he said the only thing they took

1223
00:51:14,329 --> 00:51:11,640
downstairs they had a few other props

1224
00:51:18,109 --> 00:51:14,339
that they didn't use one of which was a

1225
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,119
sidearm for an American Soldier right so

1226
00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:20,640
when the film the uh the debris footage

1227
00:51:24,349 --> 00:51:22,380
there's a guy holding it up with his

1228
00:51:27,950 --> 00:51:24,359
uniform on he was going to be wearing a

1229
00:51:30,109 --> 00:51:27,960
sidearm but the story he said but can

1230
00:51:32,270 --> 00:51:30,119
you imagine the burglar's face when he

1231
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:32,280
walked up the stairs and put the door

1232
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:35,040
and this thing is then laid out on the

1233
00:51:39,290 --> 00:51:37,380
slab because they thought at first oh

1234
00:51:40,609 --> 00:51:39,300
we've been rumbled and I thought well

1235
00:51:43,490 --> 00:51:40,619
Captain Rumble because he'd have to

1236
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,500
admit to burgerin to begin with yeah of

1237
00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:44,880
course you know and that's just one of

1238
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,980
the little stories that goes with it you

1239
00:51:50,930 --> 00:51:48,480
know you don't have to make up stories

1240
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:50,940
like that but Spiros has since done his

1241
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:55,440
own book I've done a book uh and Spiros

1242
00:51:59,329 --> 00:51:57,359
what he said to me is he said everything

1243
00:52:01,790 --> 00:51:59,339
in the book Philip

1244
00:52:05,210 --> 00:52:01,800
I can prove I've got the evidence to

1245
00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:05,220
back it up he says I know a lot more but

1246
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:07,619
I I can't necessarily prove it

1247
00:52:12,290 --> 00:52:10,319
right okay so if you so if I'm

1248
00:52:15,170 --> 00:52:12,300
questioned or challenged on anything

1249
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:15,180
that's in this book any specific item or

1250
00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:17,040
all of them for that matter I can

1251
00:52:22,490 --> 00:52:20,280
provide the proof for that and it's a

1252
00:52:24,609 --> 00:52:22,500
damn good book I must say it's nearly as

1253
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:24,619
good as mine

1254
00:52:31,730 --> 00:52:28,559
but uh yeah so then you know it all goes

1255
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:31,740
quiet again about this damn film it yeah

1256
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:33,000
and

1257
00:52:38,089 --> 00:52:34,980
I got an email

1258
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:38,099
again from a chump I don't know I have

1259
00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:40,380
no idea to who the hell he is

1260
00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:42,599
then he should have a read of this

1261
00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:45,540
and it's this email thread

1262
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,640
and it's from

1263
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:51,829
needs what was needs the National

1264
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:54,480
Institute of Discovery Sciences

1265
00:52:57,650 --> 00:52:56,400
and a number of other people are copied

1266
00:52:59,630 --> 00:52:57,660
in on it

1267
00:53:01,609 --> 00:52:59,640
and it's basically addressed to a

1268
00:53:05,210 --> 00:53:01,619
gentleman called Christopher

1269
00:53:07,490 --> 00:53:05,220
Dr Christopher kit green he's known as

1270
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,500
kit green to his friends apparently yeah

1271
00:53:11,450 --> 00:53:09,119
and

1272
00:53:13,790 --> 00:53:11,460
they're clarifying some of his comments

1273
00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:13,800
that he previously made

1274
00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:15,480
and they're all about

1275
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,640
the alien autopsy film now this thing

1276
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:19,680
then then was uploaded to some website

1277
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:22,559
the following day and off it went again

1278
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:26,400
so there's a number of people on this

1279
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:27,119
um

1280
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:31,440
email thread that I I knew who they were

1281
00:53:34,849 --> 00:53:33,359
and I emailed them and said is this real

1282
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:34,859
and they said yeah

1283
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:36,420
fair enough

1284
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:38,760
you know and

1285
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,119
look at me I'm mentioned in it as well

1286
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,400
because in whatever year it was or if

1287
00:53:48,650 --> 00:53:46,319
it's 2001

1288
00:53:51,290 --> 00:53:48,660
a gentleman by the name of Colm Kelleher

1289
00:53:53,690 --> 00:53:51,300
was part of Ned's yeah contacted me

1290
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,700
about the alien autopsy film and I put

1291
00:53:58,130 --> 00:53:55,680
him in touch with Ray santilly you know

1292
00:53:59,450 --> 00:53:58,140
I I left them to it but I'm mentioned in

1293
00:54:01,970 --> 00:53:59,460
it

1294
00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:01,980
basically kick green

1295
00:54:06,589 --> 00:54:04,740
um he did work for the CIA I believe at

1296
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:06,599
one point and he operated what was

1297
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,339
called there weird desk

1298
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:10,319
and I think that's an over exaggeration

1299
00:54:13,849 --> 00:54:12,000
but anything weird and wonderful that

1300
00:54:18,049 --> 00:54:13,859
came their way I think he was the the

1301
00:54:20,270 --> 00:54:18,059
go-to man for it and he's saying in his

1302
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:20,280
original statement that

1303
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,220
you know the alien autopsy film of

1304
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:25,200
santillies

1305
00:54:28,970 --> 00:54:27,480
was exactly the same as one that he was

1306
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:28,980
shown to him

1307
00:54:36,530 --> 00:54:32,880
by the CIA years before this yeah in the

1308
00:54:38,809 --> 00:54:36,540
80s yeah and he in fact it was shown

1309
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:38,819
several films

1310
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:40,859
and

1311
00:54:46,130 --> 00:54:43,920
he talks about Ray santilli's Associates

1312
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,140
well you know I don't remember any

1313
00:54:51,049 --> 00:54:48,720
Associates like he's describing them

1314
00:54:53,569 --> 00:54:51,059
honey you know there he answers their

1315
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:53,579
questions and basically all of them all

1316
00:54:57,230 --> 00:54:56,160
of these people on this email list are

1317
00:54:59,450 --> 00:54:57,240
all doctors

1318
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,460
of one form or another

1319
00:55:02,450 --> 00:55:01,680
and they all thought the alien autopsy

1320
00:55:03,950 --> 00:55:02,460
film

1321
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:03,960
was real

1322
00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:08,160
probably based on Kick green yeah so I

1323
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:09,660
managed to get hold of kick green on

1324
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:11,160
email

1325
00:55:14,750 --> 00:55:12,960
and I said

1326
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:14,760
and he didn't want to talk about it to

1327
00:55:21,170 --> 00:55:18,839
be honest you know I I think others are

1328
00:55:23,809 --> 00:55:21,180
pestered him yeah but eventually I got

1329
00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:23,819
him to talk and he said he said he said

1330
00:55:28,370 --> 00:55:26,220
we don't believe it's real now

1331
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:28,380
and he believed that the CIA had pulled

1332
00:55:34,190 --> 00:55:31,260
some kind of stunt on him or whatever

1333
00:55:36,290 --> 00:55:34,200
but Sam Tooley gets hold of this email

1334
00:55:39,230 --> 00:55:36,300
thread

1335
00:55:42,349 --> 00:55:39,240
and he calls it the CIA email well it's

1336
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:42,359
not from the CIO a CIA

1337
00:55:48,349 --> 00:55:45,200
it's from the colleagues working for

1338
00:55:50,089 --> 00:55:48,359
Bigelow at the time needs NASA leases

1339
00:55:54,829 --> 00:55:50,099
you Discovery Sciences

1340
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,839
uh my way of looking at it was that

1341
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,359
Bigelow is a is a big believer in this

1342
00:56:01,490 --> 00:55:59,040
kind of thing

1343
00:56:02,930 --> 00:56:01,500
they've looked into it and they've said

1344
00:56:04,790 --> 00:56:02,940
it's real they don't really want to

1345
00:56:07,390 --> 00:56:04,800
upset the apple cart they want to keep

1346
00:56:10,190 --> 00:56:07,400
the paychecks coming so they can do the

1347
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,200
inverted commas the real research on the

1348
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:12,480
real stuff you know whether that's

1349
00:56:17,329 --> 00:56:14,760
correct or not I don't know

1350
00:56:19,849 --> 00:56:17,339
but once again you know just when you

1351
00:56:21,230 --> 00:56:19,859
thought that you know the alien autopsy

1352
00:56:24,109 --> 00:56:21,240
film was dead

1353
00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:24,119
it wasn't and then

1354
00:56:28,849 --> 00:56:26,460
just what was it last year or the year

1355
00:56:34,670 --> 00:56:31,250
santilly pops up again

1356
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:34,680
he's now selling a frame an original

1357
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:37,680
frame of these alien autopsy films uh

1358
00:56:44,089 --> 00:56:40,980
was it an nft or NTA that's him then nft

1359
00:56:45,890 --> 00:56:44,099
yeah nft and I think it's I think he was

1360
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,900
asking for a I don't know if it was a

1361
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,520
million pounds I think it was a million

1362
00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:49,200
yeah yeah

1363
00:56:53,150 --> 00:56:51,540
and of course Spiros sees it he gets in

1364
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,160
touch with the company who's auctioning

1365
00:56:59,569 --> 00:56:57,530
you know they take it down and suddenly

1366
00:57:03,049 --> 00:56:59,579
keep pulling it back up again

1367
00:57:05,450 --> 00:57:03,059
uh yeah you know I I I'm still in

1368
00:57:07,849 --> 00:57:05,460
contact with santilly we've exchanged an

1369
00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:07,859
email once in a while just pleasantries

1370
00:57:13,790 --> 00:57:10,440
you know nothing out of the order and

1371
00:57:15,890 --> 00:57:13,800
I've just many many more hours Ray

1372
00:57:16,849 --> 00:57:15,900
when you're ready to tell your side of

1373
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:16,859
the story

1374
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:19,440
and by that I mean the truth you know

1375
00:57:23,150 --> 00:57:20,640
where I am

1376
00:57:26,030 --> 00:57:23,160
and that is like a pocket history of of

1377
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,040
the alien autopsy film you know I was

1378
00:57:29,809 --> 00:57:28,559
determined uh Vinnie to get to the

1379
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:29,819
bottom of it I didn't think it would

1380
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:31,920
take as long as it did because when it

1381
00:57:34,730 --> 00:57:33,660
hit you know when it when it hit the

1382
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:34,740
headlines

1383
00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:37,200
there was those that said I was um you

1384
00:57:43,069 --> 00:57:40,680
know on the take from santilly I was his

1385
00:57:44,450 --> 00:57:43,079
you know his partner in crime so to

1386
00:57:47,630 --> 00:57:44,460
speak

1387
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:47,640
um this came about basically because my

1388
00:57:51,410 --> 00:57:49,260
wife and I had a small family at that

1389
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,420
point and we're building a an extension

1390
00:57:54,829 --> 00:57:53,040
on our house

1391
00:57:57,230 --> 00:57:54,839
and somebody said well where does where

1392
00:57:59,930 --> 00:57:57,240
does Matt will get that money from

1393
00:58:02,569 --> 00:57:59,940
well I didn't have that money my wife

1394
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,579
did my wife had had her own property

1395
00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:04,559
prior to his meeting

1396
00:58:08,809 --> 00:58:06,780
we'd sold it and we used some other

1397
00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:08,819
proceeds from it to build the extension

1398
00:58:12,589 --> 00:58:11,220
on our house nobody ever asked me that

1399
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,599
they just thought Matt was on the take

1400
00:58:17,150 --> 00:58:14,819
of course you know he's getting all his

1401
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:17,160
tons of money I got I got paid a small

1402
00:58:21,530 --> 00:58:18,240
fee

1403
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:21,540
for writing race until his documentary

1404
00:58:27,049 --> 00:58:24,240
he eventually made it and sold it and

1405
00:58:28,730 --> 00:58:27,059
it's narrated by Brian blessed you know

1406
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:28,740
well-known actor

1407
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,200
and I got to play the Smallmouth just a

1408
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:33,119
small thing for writing that none of us

1409
00:58:37,789 --> 00:58:35,760
sound to me including knew that this

1410
00:58:40,370 --> 00:58:37,799
would take off like it did

1411
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:40,380
and uh and here we are still talking

1412
00:58:48,069 --> 00:58:43,200
about it how many years later you know

1413
00:58:50,089 --> 00:58:48,079
yeah over 25 years no don't remind me

1414
00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:50,099
well listen that's just an incredible

1415
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:52,920
story and um obviously recently I was

1416
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:55,040
made aware of this four-part TV series

1417
00:58:59,390 --> 00:58:57,780
alien autopsy the search for answers

1418
00:59:02,870 --> 00:58:59,400
which is available I think on Amazon

1419
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:02,880
Prime this one here yeah and that was

1420
00:59:07,010 --> 00:59:05,280
really good it laid it all out yeah I

1421
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,020
mean it's a company in London that asked

1422
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:09,359
me if I'd take part in it and

1423
00:59:13,849 --> 00:59:12,000
um I agreed I didn't know how many parts

1424
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:13,859
it was going to be they made it into a

1425
00:59:17,870 --> 00:59:15,599
four-parter

1426
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:17,880
some people say it's a bit longer they

1427
00:59:21,170 --> 00:59:20,040
might be right but all you know I didn't

1428
00:59:22,670 --> 00:59:21,180
know santilly was going to be

1429
00:59:23,569 --> 00:59:22,680
interviewed for it he's still telling

1430
00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:23,579
you this

1431
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,280
false story and what what is interesting

1432
00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:28,319
for me it's only

1433
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,000
you know they asked him the question

1434
00:59:35,390 --> 00:59:32,160
about the second autopsy film and he

1435
00:59:36,890 --> 00:59:35,400
said what what second he's now forgotten

1436
00:59:42,289 --> 00:59:36,900
because

1437
00:59:47,930 --> 00:59:45,530
you don't you don't make two films dear

1438
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:47,940
if if I if you were an art restorer and

1439
00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:50,880
I said Vinnie I want you to I've got you

1440
00:59:55,730 --> 00:59:53,160
know I own the Mona Lisa I want you to

1441
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,740
restore it for me you wouldn't make you

1442
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:57,359
know wouldn't restore that one and make

1443
01:00:02,390 --> 00:59:59,760
another one that's completely not it's

1444
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:02,400
completely different you know bear in

1445
01:00:06,650 --> 01:00:04,559
mind the other autopsy film the creature

1446
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:06,660
is completely undamaged

1447
01:00:13,490 --> 01:00:10,079
it's in the same location same people

1448
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:13,500
um but there is a fault with it and that

1449
01:00:19,490 --> 01:00:15,599
thought is of a medical nature I've seen

1450
01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:19,500
it and it's also a lot brighter well and

1451
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,780
I asked Spiros about this he said well

1452
01:00:26,030 --> 01:00:23,280
the reason it's a lot brighter is

1453
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:26,040
because we were never going to use it

1454
01:00:29,089 --> 01:00:27,720
he said what I did with the other one I

1455
01:00:31,250 --> 01:00:29,099
run it through the computer and just

1456
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:31,260
darkened it a little bit you know I

1457
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:33,240
didn't bother with that one because we

1458
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:34,799
weren't going to use it so that's why

1459
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:37,920
it's brighter you know yeah and

1460
01:00:43,490 --> 01:00:41,280
um you know so it it keeps on going it

1461
01:00:45,470 --> 01:00:43,500
keeps on trucking so to speak

1462
01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:45,480
so does santilly still claim there's a

1463
01:00:50,750 --> 01:00:47,160
couple of frames in the video from uh

1464
01:00:52,849 --> 01:00:50,760
the original real autopsy that I think

1465
01:00:56,510 --> 01:00:52,859
he said he first saw in 92 is that right

1466
01:00:59,690 --> 01:00:56,520
yeah he originally you said 93 but it

1467
01:01:02,750 --> 01:00:59,700
was 92 and the reason we know it's 92 is

1468
01:01:06,410 --> 01:01:02,760
santially did a newspaper article about

1469
01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:06,420
some of his finds in 1992. no mention of

1470
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:09,000
any Elvis footage but he did buy some

1471
01:01:14,210 --> 01:01:12,000
Elvis correspondence that the newspaper

1472
01:01:16,370 --> 01:01:14,220
was like was Elvis the last letters and

1473
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:16,380
all this lot because he was a collector

1474
01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:19,440
uh and he you know I remember sitting in

1475
01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:21,240
his office one day for example and he

1476
01:01:25,250 --> 01:01:23,760
was drooling over the shoebox and he

1477
01:01:27,049 --> 01:01:25,260
opened it and they were all black and

1478
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:27,059
white photographs of The Beatles that he

1479
01:01:29,930 --> 01:01:28,799
bought and they'd never been published

1480
01:01:32,809 --> 01:01:29,940
anywhere

1481
01:01:34,490 --> 01:01:32,819
so you know how much to be worth I don't

1482
01:01:39,530 --> 01:01:34,500
know but that's the kind of thing it

1483
01:01:41,809 --> 01:01:39,540
dealt in and it was 1992 so what he

1484
01:01:43,789 --> 01:01:41,819
claimed was he'd seen the film at the

1485
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:43,799
cameraman's house

1486
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,380
shook hands on it but didn't have the

1487
01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:48,660
cash to pay him and it took him a while

1488
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:51,000
to raise the money via Volker Spielberg

1489
01:01:55,730 --> 01:01:52,319
of course

1490
01:01:57,230 --> 01:01:55,740
they paid him you know some 18 months

1491
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:57,240
later two years later the film is

1492
01:02:01,609 --> 01:01:58,920
shipped over and when they opened the

1493
01:02:04,609 --> 01:02:01,619
canisters it's damaged it started to

1494
01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:04,619
melt and all this lot like it doesn't do

1495
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:07,619
that you know but that was historian

1496
01:02:11,089 --> 01:02:10,079
this and all he was left with is some

1497
01:02:12,770 --> 01:02:11,099
frames

1498
01:02:14,210 --> 01:02:12,780
and you can see the creature that's one

1499
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:14,220
of them he tried to sell for a million

1500
01:02:19,430 --> 01:02:16,319
dollars you know yeah

1501
01:02:22,490 --> 01:02:19,440
and that they inserted some of these

1502
01:02:26,510 --> 01:02:22,500
into the alien autopsy film excuse me I

1503
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:26,520
just got to take these no problem at all

1504
01:02:34,370 --> 01:02:31,970
these are the frames that that um

1505
01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:34,380
sculpted John Humphrey's claims he saw

1506
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:37,020
but there weren't any frames it was all

1507
01:02:43,789 --> 01:02:40,559
shot on 16 millimeter film but but

1508
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:43,799
modern day 16 millimeters didn't he

1509
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:46,559
splice it though didn't um Spiros splice

1510
01:02:51,710 --> 01:02:49,440
some 16 millimeter with an old baseball

1511
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:51,720
film or something it went down Camden

1512
01:02:55,490 --> 01:02:53,760
Market or whatever it was and it back

1513
01:02:58,130 --> 01:02:55,500
some old film one was a baseball film

1514
01:03:00,890 --> 01:02:58,140
but it was don't in mind

1515
01:03:02,329 --> 01:03:00,900
Kodak had already sent spinos of facts

1516
01:03:04,190 --> 01:03:02,339
knowing what the edge called to look for

1517
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:04,200
that would tell you the year

1518
01:03:08,809 --> 01:03:06,660
and about a baseball film

1519
01:03:10,130 --> 01:03:08,819
and he slipped the leader off and a bit

1520
01:03:12,650 --> 01:03:10,140
of the film

1521
01:03:14,089 --> 01:03:12,660
and he stuck it onto the alien autopsy

1522
01:03:16,970 --> 01:03:14,099
film and splashed it onto it which is

1523
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:16,980
the new stuff he got a photography

1524
01:03:21,710 --> 01:03:18,960
expert called Bob shell over from the

1525
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,720
states I met Bob several times

1526
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:24,059
better in mind as well Spiros

1527
01:03:30,770 --> 01:03:27,359
is and was then a magician

1528
01:03:32,510 --> 01:03:30,780
yeah so does the old magician sick all

1529
01:03:34,730 --> 01:03:32,520
he did

1530
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:34,740
was real to film out and he kept saying

1531
01:03:40,370 --> 01:03:37,200
knockout show you don't touch it you

1532
01:03:42,170 --> 01:03:40,380
know and he's you know he's enticing Bob

1533
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,180
shell you know

1534
01:03:46,190 --> 01:03:44,640
so he pulls it all out and all he does

1535
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,200
is he puts his finger in his thumb over

1536
01:03:51,530 --> 01:03:48,480
the splice

1537
01:03:53,630 --> 01:03:51,540
close the film up

1538
01:03:57,049 --> 01:03:53,640
you can see it going up into the locker

1539
01:03:58,990 --> 01:03:57,059
room which spinos claims was the autopsy

1540
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,000
room yeah he showed him the edge codes

1541
01:04:03,849 --> 01:04:01,680
and then Following on

1542
01:04:07,789 --> 01:04:03,859
is the uh is the creature on the slab

1543
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:07,799
that is modern day film and he put his

1544
01:04:13,150 --> 01:04:09,299
finger and he's what they call it

1545
01:04:16,730 --> 01:04:15,230
they'll say look at this but it's the

1546
01:04:18,770 --> 01:04:16,740
other hand you want to be looking at you

1547
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:18,780
know what I mean that's exactly what he

1548
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:20,880
did and of course bombshell walked away

1549
01:04:26,030 --> 01:04:23,640
saying it's real and it's genuine he's

1550
01:04:28,609 --> 01:04:26,040
now in prison which is another story all

1551
01:04:29,390 --> 01:04:28,619
on its own but but you know it's been

1552
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:29,400
full

1553
01:04:36,289 --> 01:04:33,839
uh basically and um

1554
01:04:37,849 --> 01:04:36,299
that's that's just how things there's

1555
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:37,859
all kinds of little things in it you

1556
01:04:41,690 --> 01:04:40,079
know that happened and things that were

1557
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,700
said and done

1558
01:04:45,530 --> 01:04:43,200
but and there's still people that

1559
01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:45,540
believe it's real to me I mean not that

1560
01:04:50,809 --> 01:04:48,780
many years ago a gentleman that I know

1561
01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:50,819
said I'm gonna him and a business

1562
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:52,559
colleague we're gonna put a proposition

1563
01:04:58,490 --> 01:04:55,200
to santilly to buy the film from him

1564
01:05:02,750 --> 01:04:58,500
for a substantial amount of money

1565
01:05:06,170 --> 01:05:02,760
and I said don't buy it

1566
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:06,180
I'm telling you now do not buy it it is

1567
01:05:10,849 --> 01:05:08,160
fake this is what all of it Philip I'm

1568
01:05:13,490 --> 01:05:10,859
saying yes all of it is fake

1569
01:05:16,670 --> 01:05:13,500
you know don't whatever you do

1570
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:16,680
thankfully you didn't buy it you know

1571
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:19,200
um but it was it was him in a

1572
01:05:23,089 --> 01:05:20,880
businessman wanted to want to buy the

1573
01:05:24,890 --> 01:05:23,099
film but a substantial amount of money

1574
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:24,900
and I'm just I'm like you were checking

1575
01:05:28,490 --> 01:05:25,760
my head

1576
01:05:30,289 --> 01:05:28,500
you know so there you go that's the

1577
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:30,299
alien autopsy film and it will continue

1578
01:05:35,930 --> 01:05:33,599
to to you know to resurrect itself every

1579
01:05:38,390 --> 01:05:35,940
now and again absolutely and I really

1580
01:05:40,250 --> 01:05:38,400
appreciate you coming on and telling us

1581
01:05:42,170 --> 01:05:40,260
you know the intricacies and the ins and

1582
01:05:43,549 --> 01:05:42,180
outs of it I really do appreciate it for

1583
01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:43,559
anybody that does want to go and watch

1584
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:45,900
the four-part series uh it's available

1585
01:05:49,549 --> 01:05:47,520
on Amazon Prime it is linked in the

1586
01:05:51,289 --> 01:05:49,559
description below I think it it's a

1587
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:51,299
great you know timeline of everything

1588
01:05:55,730 --> 01:05:53,880
that happened Philip thank you again now

1589
01:05:57,650 --> 01:05:55,740
I'd love to have you on again we can

1590
01:05:58,730 --> 01:05:57,660
talk about other cases and other things

1591
01:06:00,410 --> 01:05:58,740
you've worked on because obviously

1592
01:06:02,089 --> 01:06:00,420
you've you've done that so hopefully

1593
01:06:05,390 --> 01:06:02,099
you'll come back in the not so distant

1594
01:06:08,030 --> 01:06:05,400
future well yes I mean this year is the

1595
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:08,040
50th anniversary of the Pascagoula case

1596
01:06:13,730 --> 01:06:12,180
in Pascagoula Mississippi in 1973

1597
01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:13,740
um we have a lot of information to

1598
01:06:17,690 --> 01:06:16,260
release on that by September October

1599
01:06:20,690 --> 01:06:17,700
time so

1600
01:06:23,150 --> 01:06:20,700
I'm sure it'll get the tongues a wagging

1601
01:06:25,849 --> 01:06:23,160
and the teeth are chattering but yes

1602
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:25,859
we'll happily do that Bernie thank you

1603
01:06:29,690 --> 01:06:27,660
ever so much I really appreciate it and

1604
01:06:31,370 --> 01:06:29,700
thank you again thank you to also to

1605
01:06:32,990 --> 01:06:31,380
everyone in the live chat thank you for

1606
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,000
being here as always and showing your

1607
01:06:36,950 --> 01:06:35,220
support I really do appreciate it uh

1608
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:36,960
hopefully next time you see me I will be

1609
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,240
here with my co-host Katie Howland but

1610
01:06:42,410 --> 01:06:40,799
for now everyone enjoy the rest of your